I would like to tell you all about my personal experience with Quest Gel. This is not a tale about a "friend of a friend". This happened with two of my horses, to my family.
Please do not assume I overdosed either of my horses. I have been raising/handling/training/loving horses for ten years now. I am by no means an expert in any area, but I am also not ignorant. If I am unsure, I ask someone who is more knowledgeable than myself!
I have read many posts on many sites about Quest, and would like to tell of things that I have seen and experienced that are not listed in what I have so far read.
I feel so sorry for those that have lost horses due to no fault of their own. It is heart wrenching to read of the devastation of other families having just gone through our own last night.
Let me also say that my horses are non-related, of different ages and breeds, stalled separately, and are on the same feed, hay, worming schedule, with separate water. We worm on a rotation of ivermectrin and zemectrin, using Quest once a year in the winter months.
On Feb. 20 2007 I wormed my three horses. Within 2 hours of worming two of them went down. We were able to get our 3 year old Palomino, Jolly, up within an hour and walked him for another hour. Jolly is a short little guy weighing in at about 600 lbs. When I worm him with Quest, as in the past, I worm for 500 lbs on him. He is Skipper W line bred and has always been extremely muscular with a big tummy. We had just had many weeks of sub-zero temps and even with blanket, he lost some weight due to burning body fat for heat.
We are not rich, our barn is not some fabulous heated structure. We are a 4-H family that show, raise and celebrate animals. They are our family.
The other horse, a 10 month old american paint named Jack, would not get up. You see on both horses, their back legs appeared not to work properly, as if they were separate from the front. After many frustrating hours, we finally got the little guy up. He was thin. He is slightly built and a perfect pleasure horse. We got him in Sept/Oct 2006, and showed him at fair with the others. He was slowly gaining weight as fall turned to winter, but was not large by any means
Neither horse was unhealthy or debilitated. They were happy go lucky little guys.
After making my way through the myriad of a phone system I got to a Fort Dodge rep. (Quest people) Explaining the symptoms and concerns I was told that both horses had an allergy to quest. I then explained to her that they are un-related, different ages and breeds ect. and that one had been wormed with Quest several times prior. Their vet called me back the next morning. Very nice man! We'll call him Doc.
Doc went through the normal questions and concerns, he said that what I was looking at was a true reaction to Quest. This was not my imagination, no feed or care problem, but a true negative reaction to Quest Gel wormer.
The "boys" had their wormer from the same tube. Our older mare from a different tube. But both tubes bore the same lot # and exp date.
Now I will tell you what the vet of Fort Dodge Pharm. said. If their is an actual toxic reaction to moxidectin (Quest) then the horse will become dehydrated very quickly. If their is not enough fat content in the body to disperse the drug, then it cannot be eliminated quickly and efficiently. The drug paralyzes the back legs of a horse. They will not be able to coordinate them like the front. This paralizing lasts approximately 24-48 hours before wearing off. The drug is supposed to leave the body by waste product, which one... I don't know. The horse usually will be able to stand within 24-48 hours. The only treatment is IV fluids and general care. He stated that horses have died from this reaction and gave me the percentage, but I unfortunately do not remember it. It is small though. He told me that you cannot overworm a horse with Quest unless you are trying. You would have to give him 10 x his weight to kill him, so that he knew I had not done that.
The IV fluids are necessary as the horses do not want to drink enough to re-hydrate themselves. He needed to sit up and be rolled twice a day to keep the legs circulating good. We had to try twice a day to make him stand as well.
Doc called each day Jack was down. On the third day our local vet was able to make a house call. We live in a rural area and our trailer floor was broken so we couldn't haul him obviously.
Our vet confirmed that our grain, hay, feed schedule and worm schedule was top notch. He said Jack was too far gone and was going to die. He refused IV treatment and said he had to get to a conference in Columbus, Ohio. Just then it was exactly 72 hours since he had gone down, and little Jack stood up all by himself! He turned wobbly and stuck his butt to the vet as if to say, "kiss this doc, don't count me out yet!"
Our vet stated to double their feed immediately to bring up their fat content. I asked him if this was safe, as they could colic from that. (he's old and set in his ways)
Fort Dodge Doc was on the line right after to give instructions on how to keep him up. He instructed us NOT to up their feed, but to find the highest fat supplement we could and give that to them all as they had all received Quest Gel. Jack only stood a few minutes once a day, but we were dilligent in keeping him blanketed, fed and hayed. We carried sugar water to him and aided him 4 times a day or more. A week later he was fully recovered. WE thought our worries were behind us...
Not even 48 hours ago we arrived home from work/school around 7:15 pm. My daughter entered the barn to feed and found the Palomino, Jolly, down. Apparently he had struck his eye on the 4x4 corner post as he went down. The swelling was bad. He had numerous cuts on his legs from his attempts to get up. Three of us managed to get him into the bigger aisle of the barn and onto some straw, tucking it around his legs to prevent damage. He was exhausted. He didn't have colic. We kept him warm and he refused to drink. He had broken 4 teeth, two top and two bottom, obviously striking the wall when he went down.
He tried throughout the night to rise, and was unable. He had bowel movements and urinated. Yesterday I checked on him every hour, driving home from work to do so. At 7:00 pm he still was not up. 12 fellow friends and horse lovers helped to get im up. It was just like before. The back legs did not work properly. We pumped Gatorade and sugar water down his gullet. All that he wanted. We gave him a shot of b 12. All to no avail. At 3:12 a.m. on 04-26-07 Classical Skippers Jolly shucked off his mortal coil. He was surrounded by three teenagers who had held his head, kept him soothed, hydrated and cared for him throughout the evening and night.
I contacted Fort Dodge Pharmaceuticals. They were closed of course, but I did reach their answering veterinary service and spoke with that vet. He said the information about Quest Gel for horses was enough to fill a thimble. There was plenty for cows/calfs, but not equine info. I actualy knew more about the effects on the nervous system of horses from Doc. He did give me a new fact however. The retention time of the drug in the body is 15 days plus. I was well past that time with my horses, but he didn't know how it was eliminated, through urine or feces. He also stated he didn't know how much was left or residual in the kidneys or liver or intestines.
One further piece of information on the condition of all three horses since worming. Each horse has now lost substantial muscle mass in the hindquarters. Butt, hip, thigh on all three are down. On the two affected horses it is substantial, on the older mare, it is less, but still noticeable. If you are thinking perhaps that they were not fed enough, this is what they ate from Feb 20th till April 26. 1000 pounds of 12% sweet feed, specially made by a nutritionist. Not to mention red-top clover/orchard grass hay. They were all also given a supplement consisting of 42% fat to help build up their fat content, and a 12/12 free graze mineral supplement with each feeding.
I leave it up to all of you to decide if the problems arising from muscle loss since worming contributed to the loss of our little guy Jolly. Will Jack go down more? We don't know...
My daughter will not have her 4-H project... you see her older mare was injured by a trainer when he flipped her onto her back 2 years ago, with a saddle on. Our vet said she had leg problems from reining due to age. We smartened up this past year and took her to a chiropractor. Her withers were knocked out from the saddle when flipped and no longer will they stay in place to ride her. We constantly adjust her as it pops out when she rolls and such. So we were really excited that Jolly was old enough to train for this year. He was such a sweetie. At 18 mos old he rode my 3 year old little girl around the round pen for over 15 minutes. All the while she was kicking his sides with her tiny boots saying "Giddy up Jolly!" He even lowered his head for her to dismount and they kissed. He had a lot of heart and a lot of love... We will miss him greatly...Quest Gel? Never again will I trust what I read on a drug. You just never know...
Please do not assume I overdosed either of my horses. I have been raising/handling/training/loving horses for ten years now. I am by no means an expert in any area, but I am also not ignorant. If I am unsure, I ask someone who is more knowledgeable than myself!
I have read many posts on many sites about Quest, and would like to tell of things that I have seen and experienced that are not listed in what I have so far read.
I feel so sorry for those that have lost horses due to no fault of their own. It is heart wrenching to read of the devastation of other families having just gone through our own last night.
Let me also say that my horses are non-related, of different ages and breeds, stalled separately, and are on the same feed, hay, worming schedule, with separate water. We worm on a rotation of ivermectrin and zemectrin, using Quest once a year in the winter months.
On Feb. 20 2007 I wormed my three horses. Within 2 hours of worming two of them went down. We were able to get our 3 year old Palomino, Jolly, up within an hour and walked him for another hour. Jolly is a short little guy weighing in at about 600 lbs. When I worm him with Quest, as in the past, I worm for 500 lbs on him. He is Skipper W line bred and has always been extremely muscular with a big tummy. We had just had many weeks of sub-zero temps and even with blanket, he lost some weight due to burning body fat for heat.
We are not rich, our barn is not some fabulous heated structure. We are a 4-H family that show, raise and celebrate animals. They are our family.
The other horse, a 10 month old american paint named Jack, would not get up. You see on both horses, their back legs appeared not to work properly, as if they were separate from the front. After many frustrating hours, we finally got the little guy up. He was thin. He is slightly built and a perfect pleasure horse. We got him in Sept/Oct 2006, and showed him at fair with the others. He was slowly gaining weight as fall turned to winter, but was not large by any means
Neither horse was unhealthy or debilitated. They were happy go lucky little guys.
After making my way through the myriad of a phone system I got to a Fort Dodge rep. (Quest people) Explaining the symptoms and concerns I was told that both horses had an allergy to quest. I then explained to her that they are un-related, different ages and breeds ect. and that one had been wormed with Quest several times prior. Their vet called me back the next morning. Very nice man! We'll call him Doc.
Doc went through the normal questions and concerns, he said that what I was looking at was a true reaction to Quest. This was not my imagination, no feed or care problem, but a true negative reaction to Quest Gel wormer.
The "boys" had their wormer from the same tube. Our older mare from a different tube. But both tubes bore the same lot # and exp date.
Now I will tell you what the vet of Fort Dodge Pharm. said. If their is an actual toxic reaction to moxidectin (Quest) then the horse will become dehydrated very quickly. If their is not enough fat content in the body to disperse the drug, then it cannot be eliminated quickly and efficiently. The drug paralyzes the back legs of a horse. They will not be able to coordinate them like the front. This paralizing lasts approximately 24-48 hours before wearing off. The drug is supposed to leave the body by waste product, which one... I don't know. The horse usually will be able to stand within 24-48 hours. The only treatment is IV fluids and general care. He stated that horses have died from this reaction and gave me the percentage, but I unfortunately do not remember it. It is small though. He told me that you cannot overworm a horse with Quest unless you are trying. You would have to give him 10 x his weight to kill him, so that he knew I had not done that.
The IV fluids are necessary as the horses do not want to drink enough to re-hydrate themselves. He needed to sit up and be rolled twice a day to keep the legs circulating good. We had to try twice a day to make him stand as well.
Doc called each day Jack was down. On the third day our local vet was able to make a house call. We live in a rural area and our trailer floor was broken so we couldn't haul him obviously.
Our vet confirmed that our grain, hay, feed schedule and worm schedule was top notch. He said Jack was too far gone and was going to die. He refused IV treatment and said he had to get to a conference in Columbus, Ohio. Just then it was exactly 72 hours since he had gone down, and little Jack stood up all by himself! He turned wobbly and stuck his butt to the vet as if to say, "kiss this doc, don't count me out yet!"
Our vet stated to double their feed immediately to bring up their fat content. I asked him if this was safe, as they could colic from that. (he's old and set in his ways)
Fort Dodge Doc was on the line right after to give instructions on how to keep him up. He instructed us NOT to up their feed, but to find the highest fat supplement we could and give that to them all as they had all received Quest Gel. Jack only stood a few minutes once a day, but we were dilligent in keeping him blanketed, fed and hayed. We carried sugar water to him and aided him 4 times a day or more. A week later he was fully recovered. WE thought our worries were behind us...
Not even 48 hours ago we arrived home from work/school around 7:15 pm. My daughter entered the barn to feed and found the Palomino, Jolly, down. Apparently he had struck his eye on the 4x4 corner post as he went down. The swelling was bad. He had numerous cuts on his legs from his attempts to get up. Three of us managed to get him into the bigger aisle of the barn and onto some straw, tucking it around his legs to prevent damage. He was exhausted. He didn't have colic. We kept him warm and he refused to drink. He had broken 4 teeth, two top and two bottom, obviously striking the wall when he went down.
He tried throughout the night to rise, and was unable. He had bowel movements and urinated. Yesterday I checked on him every hour, driving home from work to do so. At 7:00 pm he still was not up. 12 fellow friends and horse lovers helped to get im up. It was just like before. The back legs did not work properly. We pumped Gatorade and sugar water down his gullet. All that he wanted. We gave him a shot of b 12. All to no avail. At 3:12 a.m. on 04-26-07 Classical Skippers Jolly shucked off his mortal coil. He was surrounded by three teenagers who had held his head, kept him soothed, hydrated and cared for him throughout the evening and night.
I contacted Fort Dodge Pharmaceuticals. They were closed of course, but I did reach their answering veterinary service and spoke with that vet. He said the information about Quest Gel for horses was enough to fill a thimble. There was plenty for cows/calfs, but not equine info. I actualy knew more about the effects on the nervous system of horses from Doc. He did give me a new fact however. The retention time of the drug in the body is 15 days plus. I was well past that time with my horses, but he didn't know how it was eliminated, through urine or feces. He also stated he didn't know how much was left or residual in the kidneys or liver or intestines.
One further piece of information on the condition of all three horses since worming. Each horse has now lost substantial muscle mass in the hindquarters. Butt, hip, thigh on all three are down. On the two affected horses it is substantial, on the older mare, it is less, but still noticeable. If you are thinking perhaps that they were not fed enough, this is what they ate from Feb 20th till April 26. 1000 pounds of 12% sweet feed, specially made by a nutritionist. Not to mention red-top clover/orchard grass hay. They were all also given a supplement consisting of 42% fat to help build up their fat content, and a 12/12 free graze mineral supplement with each feeding.
I leave it up to all of you to decide if the problems arising from muscle loss since worming contributed to the loss of our little guy Jolly. Will Jack go down more? We don't know...
My daughter will not have her 4-H project... you see her older mare was injured by a trainer when he flipped her onto her back 2 years ago, with a saddle on. Our vet said she had leg problems from reining due to age. We smartened up this past year and took her to a chiropractor. Her withers were knocked out from the saddle when flipped and no longer will they stay in place to ride her. We constantly adjust her as it pops out when she rolls and such. So we were really excited that Jolly was old enough to train for this year. He was such a sweetie. At 18 mos old he rode my 3 year old little girl around the round pen for over 15 minutes. All the while she was kicking his sides with her tiny boots saying "Giddy up Jolly!" He even lowered his head for her to dismount and they kissed. He had a lot of heart and a lot of love... We will miss him greatly...Quest Gel? Never again will I trust what I read on a drug. You just never know...
